Turkey & the Ottoman question in Parliament — full span, 1803–2004

…In the autumn of 1831, Ibrahim Pacha marched into Syria; on the 3rd of December in that year, Acre was besieged; it fell in May 1832. Ibrahim Pacha advanced to Damascus, which was taken on the 14th of June. On the 7th of July, the fate of Syria was decided by the battle at Homs. It was easy to foresee these successes, and to anticipate the victory of Egyptian discipline over Turkish disorganization. Was it not most strange that at this period we had no Ambassador at Constantinople? There was no Ambassador from the English or French Governments. General Guilleminot had been French Ambassador during the Polish war; but, in consequence of his interference in urging the Porte to take advantage of that crisis, he was removed by Sebastiani, at the instance of Count Pozzo di Borgo. Turkey applied to England in this emergency for aid.…

…This, at all events, was the plain English of the treaty, and unless there was truth in the celebrated remark of Prince Eugene, "that 100,000 men constituted a better guarantee than 100,000 treaties," he hesitated not to say, that countersigned as it was by all the assembled powers of Europe, there never was a better guarantee than that given by it to the people of Poland. In leaving Poland, and adverting to Turkey and the country round the Euxine, but still keeping in view the offensive policy of Russia to the civilized world, he thought he could show, that the conduct of Russia, territorially, politically, and commercially, had no parallel in the history of the world.…

…was quoted in this House a few years ago by the noble Lord the Member for Hertford, and that in doing so he made a sort of apology for the communication—an apology which, he said, was furnished him by the notoriety of the fact, and the greatness of the emergency. This being so, what had the noble Lord 1155 then, to do, but to maintain the protest of the Duke of Wellington in all its integrity, in order to prevent Russia from aggrandising herself at the expense of Turkey, under the pretext and cover of that Treaty of London which was signed by England, Prance, Russia, and Austria, for so different a purpose—the settlement of the affairs of Greece? Let us see, then, what was in this respect the first act of the noble Lord on coming into office. Now, upon that subject he has taken care to furnish no papers, and to lay no information whatever before the House.…

…By the convention of Balta Liman, forced upon the Porte, Russia has established her right to interfere in all the internal affairs of the Principalities; and her present occupation has proved that Wallachia and Moldavia are now, to all intents and purposes, Russian provinces. Independent nationality is very nearly crushed in them. There remain in Turkey the Greeks, and those professing the Greek religion, for there is a broad though not sufficiently understood distinction between them. A spirit of inquiry and independence has sprung up amongst the Greeks, which, with their increased commercial intercourse with the free States of Europe, has for some time past greatly alarmed the Russian Government.…

…I have said that I think the great fault of the policy pursued by Her Majesty's Government was in allowing us to be drawn at all into this quarrel. I do not hold that opinion because I differ from those who have preceded me as to the conduct of Russia. I agree in all that, has been said in condemnation of the conduct of Russia towards Turkey in this case. But it does not follow, because Russia has done wrong, that it was expedient or proper for us to undertake the defence of Turkey. It is no part of our duty, as a nation, to undertake—like knights errants of old—the general redress of wrongs, and to protect every weak State which may be oppressed by a more powerful neighbour.…

MR. LAYARD : * Sir, in pursuance of a notice which I have given, I now rise to call the attention of the House to the actual state of the relations of this country 832 with Russia and Turkey. I humbly conceive that no time could be more opportune than the present for bringing to the notice of the House this most momentous subject. You are called upon, Sir, to leave the chair, that we may resolve ourselves into a Committee to take into consideration the Navy Estimates. We are invited to make very considerable additions to our naval forces, and to vote extraordinary sums to meet certain contingencies, which can mean nothing else but war.…

…shock of arms—even after that speech, when I expected to find some explanation of the exact objects of the war into which we are about to enter, and the means by which it was to be carried on, I am, I confess, still in ignorance upon several points in connection with the subject. It is not to speak upon abstract principles of non-interference, or upon abstract questions of peace, that I rise to address the House; but with reference to the points at issue between Turkey and Russia, and of the war between England and France on the one side, and Russia upon the other. If the house will condescend to give me its attention for a 918 short time, I will promise strictly to confine myself to the practical question in hand.…

…Members on both sides of the House, and as statements have been made which require explanation, if not contradic- 729 tion, I should be wanting in my duty if I did not, with this view, trespass for a few minutes on its attention. I promise to endeavour to bring back this rather discursive debate to the original Motion of my hon. Friend the Member for Pontefract. I believe his intention was to obtain from the Government some promise that the Turkish Government should be restrained from sending part of its fleet—for I consider the Egyptian fleet part of the Turkish fleet—to put down the insurrection which has broken out on the frontiers of Turkey and Greece, and that a British commander should be sent to mediate between the parties with the view of bringing about a satisfactory termination of this unfortunate outbreak.…

…The House should bear in mind, that at this moment we are in intimate alliance with a neighbouring Government, which was, at a recent period, the originator of the troubles which have arisen at Constantinople. I do not wish to blame the French Government, because nothing could have been more proper than the manner in which it had retired from the difficulty it had created; but it is nevertheless quite true that France, haying made certain demands upon Turkey with regard to concessions to the Latin Church, backed by a threat of the appearance of a French fleet in the Dardanelles, which demands Turkey had wholly or partially complied with; Russia, the powerful neighbour of Turkey, being on the watch, made certain other demands, having reference to the Greek Church; and Russia at the same time required, and this I understand to be the real ground of the quarrel, that Turkey should define by treaty, or convention, or by a…

…The moment you leave your vessels and the points of supply which you can command, you place yourselves in the same difficulties and the same dangers in which Russia is placed the instant she attempts to cross her own frontier. We come, then, to this question. Knowing these facts, and being fully aware of these difficulties, it seems that the Government are not content with going to war to restore Turkey to what she was, but you Will make war on Russia and take possession of a portion of her territory. I 627 take it for granted that the Cabinet mean not merely to go and take Sebastopol—that would be nothing if you came away again—but to occupy the Crimea; and I tell the noble Lord this—unless the thing has been already accomplished, he has been guilty of very great indiscretion, because he has given notice to the enemy that that is the point o…

…My noble Friend on the bench above (Lord Lansdowne) informed the House only a few evenings ago, that it appeared from information which had reached the Government, and in the accuracy of which they had reason to trust, that nearly 250,000 Russian soldiers had perished by the sword, or by disease, since the war began. I lately saw in the newspapers a calculation which seemed to be founded on sufficient data, that the loss of the Turkish armies, from the same causes, had not been less than 120,000men. We know that the losses of our own and of the French armies have also been very heavy, and if to the losses of all these armies we add the number of inhabitants of the provinces which have been the seat of war, who have fallen victims to want, disease, or violence, in consequence of the war, we can hardly reckon the total number of lives it has already cost at less than 500,000, though we are but in…

…ould endeavour to confine himself strictly to the subject before the House, and he ventured humbly to think he could throw some light upon it. He would recall attention to the origin of the war—for we were fast forgetting what we went to war about—and he thought he should demolish some of those splendid fallacies which had been advocated with so much eloquence by the right hon. Gentleman who sat behind him. What was the origin of the war? The Christians of Turkey were a population gradually increasing in wealth and prosperity; of their progress there was daily evidence; and the Sultan, a benign and beneficent ruler, was anxious to give protection to all his subjects. He did not mean to say that acts of oppression had not been perpetrated in the provinces; he had himself witnessed and protested against them; but those acts did not proceed from the central Government, and the central Government was no more responsible for th…

…2014;for he viewed it as a war in support of political theory—that the rule of the Sultan in the particular part of Europe, where he now exercised his power was a political necessity, and that this country was bound to defend him against his enemies. He believed it was totally apart from the consideration of the question of whether Russia was right or wrong at the commencement of these hostilities, but that, whether right or wrong, if this theory was a sound one, Turkey was a European necessity, and that it must be defended against the attacks of its enemies—and, in point of fact, the policy of the advocates of this theory was that the Turk could do no wrong. Now he for one was not strong in the faith of the political necessity of upholding the rule of the Sultan, but he would adopt the situation and take his departure from this point without disputing the soundness of this political theory on which the war was placed; but…

…ght rather to join us on this bench, and, instead of there being one peace bench in the House, there would be two peace benches, and the peace party Would clearly gain a considerable accession of strength. The noble Lord the Secretary of State for the Colonies has stated over and over again—and amid the confusion of statements which he and his colleagues have made, I think he will not find fault if I assume that the object of the war is simply the security of the Turkish territory from the grasp of Russia, and probably from the grasp of any other Power—the noble Lord has stated that he apprehends that if Russia were to extend her empire by the possession of Turkey, it would give her a power that would be unsafe with regard to the other nations of Europe.…

…I had the honour to be ordered to form, there was a condition which they stipulated should not be made, but it had not reference to the limitation of the naval force of Russia in the Black Sea; and therefore by not objecting to that condition it must be understood that they agreed to it. It is not necessary at this period of the debate to urge upon the House the reasons why it was right, necessary and just that England and France should draw 1747 the sword in defence of Turkey. It is not necessary for me to go into the systematic extension of territory which had marked the policy of Russia for some time. It would be easy for me to trace her encroachments from the Eastern shores of Asia to Central Asia by the Caspian Sea; her encroachments on Armenia to the Danube; on Poland, towards Norway and the Arctic Sea; to show how on every point of her immense circumference she has always been looking for extension, and how in every treaty that s…

VISCOUNT PALMERSTON : Sir, the Convention upon which the Resolution is founded was entered into by the two allied Governments with Turkey, in accordance with, and in fulfilment of those common views which have actuated those Governments and the people of the two countries in regard to the war in which we are now engaged. That war was undertaken for the defence, present and future, of Turkey.…

c. Employment of French Troops, Question, (Mr. Muntz), [136] 498;— Huts and Clothing for the Army in the Crimea, Question (Sir G. Heathcote), 787;— Blockade of the Russian Ports, Question (Rt. Hon. B. Disraeli), 794;— The Negotiations, Question (Mr. Layard), 910;— Charge of the Light Cavalry at Balaklava, Question (Mr. H. Berkeley), 1118;—Question (Mr. French), [137] 10;— Blockade of the Baltic, Question (Mr. Sandars), [137] 1367;— Blockade of the White Sea, Question (Mr. Collier), [138] 27;— Of the Gulf of Finland (Mr. J.…

MR. WHITESIDE rose to move the following Resolution:— "That, while this House feels it to be its duty to express its admiration of the gallantry of the Turkish soldiery and of the devotion of the British officers at the siege of Kars, it feels it to be equally a duty to express its conviction that the capitulation of that fortress and the surrender of the army which defended it, thereby endangering the safety of the Asiatic provinces of Turkey, were in a great measure owing to the want of foresight and energy on the part of Her Majesty's Administration." He said, I crave the indulgence of the House while I endeavour to…

…Majesty's Government, it was founded on the assumption that Her Majesty 's Government were responsible for the conduct of the war in Asia Minor. If we do not assume that the Government of this country is responsible for the management of the campaign in that country, and for the defence of Kars, all the accusations against the Government contained in the speech of the hon. and learned Gentleman fall to the ground. Sir, if there were the institutions of a free country in Turkey, if such a thing as an Opposition was permitted to exist in a Turkish Divan, and if Lord Panmure filled the office of the Seraskier, and Lord Clarendon that of the Turkish Secretary for Foreign Affairs, the speech of the hon. and learned Gentleman would be perfectly relevant to the question; but it appears to me that that speech was, as directed against Her Majesty's Government, wholly irrelevant. The only way in which the hon.…

…I looked to the opposite benches; I saw that many of the Members most accustomed to adorn our debates had not yet spoken, though they had been pointedly appealed to. I looked to the Treasury bench; only one Cabinet Minister, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, had addressed us, and that at an hour when the House was so empty that few indeed had been able to profit by his elaborate defence of the Government, or the interesting memoir of the Turkish loan by which that accomplished historical critic relieved the dreary chronicle of the decline and fall of Kars. At half-past twelve o'clock I had, therefore, considered that the adjournment had become a matter of course, and I never was more Surprised and vexed than when I found that a second time in my life—and this time, at least, innocently—I had occasioned to the noble Viscount a degree of angry excitement, which, whether genuine or simulated,…

…He, and those who thought with him, believed that this war, entered into upon sound principles, and in a proper spirit, might have led to very great results; that an opportunity offered of doing much for the cause of civilisation and of liberty in Europe; that the war might have taken a very large area; and that there were other questions to settle besides what was commonly called the independence and integrity of Turkey. Lord Aberdeen's Government, however, thought differently. They believed that much might he done without extending the war beyond the immediate limits of Turkey. That, he would admit, was a fair question for discussion—he thought, however, that they had lost a golden opportunity—but still there might be arguments in favour of the more restricted course pursued.…

…The Principalities, as the House is well aware, are those territories on the Danube called Wallachia and Moldavia. They are relics of a territory that was once considerably larger, inhabited by that old Dacian race which in former times was the terror of the Roman empire, and which afterwards, having received a strong tinge of Roman civilization, in no way departed from its ancient military fame, so that, at the time when the flood of Turkish conquest set in from the East, this people, and this people almost alone, by their own good swords and their own stout hearts and arms, were able to vindicate their liberty. In times of darkness, of oppression, of blood, of 47 misery and crime, almost unequalled in the annals of mankind—in those times the people of the Principalities vindicated their own freedom; and that freedom they enjoyed up to a period comparatively recent, when they, their rights, an…

…I am rather stating the feelings of M. Zenos than my own. This gentleman, who is engaged in extensive mercantile transactions, and who is well known in the City, having also a taste for literary pursuits, established a paper, some two years since, with the noble and patriotic object of infusing, so far as he was able, European ideas and civilization, together with a knowledge of European progress, into European Turkey, but especially among his compatriots of the East, whether in Greece proper, or in the Ottoman Empire. The main portion of this paper, which is printed in modern Greek, and profusely illustrated, is devoted to literary, scientific, and artistic subjects. The illustrations are of the highest order of art; and as to the literary portion of it, those who have had an opportunity of becoming acquainted with the British Star , speak of it in terms of praise.…

…Friend entered very fully upon the subject, I fear to an unwilling audience. On another occasion, when he was about to bring it on, it was not possible to collect a sufficient number of Members to form a House. But my hon. Friend's speech, like good wine, only improves, as we have seen to night, by the keeping. Notwithstanding all the speculations and theories that have been hazarded, and the confident assertion, so often made, that Turkey is on the very eve of falling to pieces, no living man has yet been able to give any satisfactory answer to the question of what is to become of the Ottoman Empire, or to propose any political combination which could replace it. My hon. Friend has not brought us nearer to a solution of the difficulty he has no doubt made an admirable speech, characterized by his usual ability and research. But it was deficient in one, and not a very immaterial respect. My hon.…

…His hon. Friend commenced his speech by saying that he should be exceedingly calm and moderate while referring to the misfortunes which had befallen the Island of Crete. That promise, he was afraid, had not been kept. He agreed with the hon. Gentleman who had just sat down that his hon. Friend made use of terms, with reference to the Turkish Government and the insurrection, which ought not to have been used, and which might possibly lead to additional trouble. No doubt his hon. Friend did not intend to bring about any such result; but he really was not aware of the importance of speeches of that kind. He might be quite sure that his speech, or a very improved version of it, would be "crowned," as a broadsheet of The Times had been, at Athens or elsewhere.…

…8.] But I will quote a much later authority—perhaps almost as high an authority as Lord Lyons himself. The able and distinguished correspondent of The Times at Athens, who is known personally to some, by name and reputation to many, hon. Members, writing from Athens in January last, says— "The pacification of Crete is not likely to be the work either of Turkey or of Greece. It must be brought about by the political influence of the Great Powers, and by the public opinion of Europe."—[ Times, February 8, 1868.] Again, on the 17th of March, he writes— "Skirmishes frequently occur between the Mussulman Greeks of the island and the insurgent Christians, but the Ottoman troops have generally remained inactive during the winter, and almost all the volunteers from Greece have returned, on account of the difficult…

MR. J. R. YORKE , in rising to call attention to the 9th clause of the Treaty of Paris of 1856, and to the condition of Turkey in so far as it bears on British interest; and to move an Address for— "Copies of any Correspondence between the Foreign Office and the Sublime Porte relating to the non-fulfilment of the provisions of the Khathy Humâïoun by the Government of the Sultan between 1856 and the present time; and, of Circular Memorandum of Fuad Pasha, dated July 1867, to the representatives of the Porto at the different Courts of Europe on the progress of the fulfi…

…Bruce) advanced upon the whole a very elaborate and ingenious plea on what is termed the Ottoman side of the question. But when I heard the speech of the Hon. Gentleman the Seconder of the Motion (Mr. Hanbury), I am bound to confess that my hon. Friend the Mover of it was entirely eclipsed, to a degree which it was hardly possible to estimate. My hon. and learned Friend who proposed the Amendment (Mr. Forsyth), said it was such a speech as might have been made by a Turkish Minister; but I must say that I doubt whether any Turkish Minister would have gone to such a length to demonstrate as he did, from his own point of view, that there was indeed somebody who ought to be put out of Europe, but that it was not the Turkish Power, but those Christians whom he described as so inferior in every personal virtue, as having 173 no grievance except from their own superiors and their own Bishops, and, in fact, as having no cause of complaint…

MR. EVELYN ASHLEY rose to call attention to the delay in obtaining 1079 official information as to the outrages in Bulgaria, and to the want of prompt and energetic action in the matter on the part, of the Government and of Her Majesty's Representatives in Turkey. The hon. Gentleman said, that the third reading of a Bill which was to appropriate public money to the respective Services of the Crown appeared to him to be a fitting one, if it were not the only one he now had, for calling the attention of the House to matters in which he ventured humbly to think the character, if not the interests, of this country had been imperilled through the action of some of those Services.…

…ntertainment as well as the information of the House, to make one exception which will not occupy more than a minute, because in a paper conducted with great ability in the North of England I read this morning a statement, not from one of the public, but from what is termed "An Occasional Correspondent," which I am rather desirous to contradict. It was a statement to the effect that a most formidable plan had been in operation for the purpose of dethroning the Sultan of Turkey and placing upon his Throne His Royal Highness the Duke of Edinburgh. The promoters of this plan are four most formidable individuals. They were, in the first place, Prince Bismarck; in the second place, the Emperor of Russia; in the third place, the Earl of Beaconsfield; and in the fourth place, Mr. Gladstone.…

…ey intend to take any further measures for the attainment of the ends contemplated in those Instructions," said: —My Lords, I rise to call the attention of your Lordships' House, in the first place, to the Instructions which were issued by Her Majesty's Government to the Marquess of Salisbury when he went out as their Special Envoy to Constantinople. Those Instructions had two great ends in view—the first was to obtain some security for internal reforms in Turkey, and the other was to obtain some security for the peace of Europe. My Lords, neither of those two great ends has been attained. There is no reform in Turkey, and alas my Lords, there is no prospect of peace in Europe. As regards the condition of the subjects of Turkey, I do not exaggerate when I say that there never has been a time in this century when their condition was so alarming or so precarious, and as regards the peace of Europe, we have only to look at th…

MR. RYLANDS : I am sure the House must have been interested and amused by the speech just delivered by the hon. Gentleman the Member for Canterbury (Mr. Butler-Johnstone). It was an advantage to hear from an hon. Gentleman of such marked ability an expression of true Turkish feeling; and not only had the hon. Gentleman expressed the feelings of the Turks, but he had indulged in prophecies of such a bold character that if we had any reason to suppose him to be inspired, I have no doubt his speech would furnish materials for discussion by many learned writers. I do not feel disposed, however, to sympathise with the hon.…

THE MARQUESS OF HARTINGTON , in rising, pursuant to Notice, "to move an Address for further Papers on the affairs of Turkey, and particularly for the Draft Protocol presented to Lord Derby by the Russian Ambassador on the 11th of March, and also for any Correspondence with reference to the Russian Circular of the 19th of January, and the Protocol of the 11th of March," said: Sir, in rising to move for further Papers upon the Eastern Question, I have neither the desire nor the right to make any complaint that up to a certain point Her Majesty's Government have not amply supplied us with…

…extraordinary speech; but, notwithstanding, confidence in Lord Salisbury's purpose and views was the principle generally adopted, and upon that mission I have not now one word to say of censure, but only of commendation. But while he was at Constantinople there was also another Representative of England there, whose views upon the most vital questions were in direct opposition to those of Lord Salisbury. This utter difference of opinion, as we now know, was known to the Turkish Government, and it counter- 405 acted all along Lord Salisbury's efforts. This, then, is one of the points upon which the positton of the Government is ambiguous and requires to be cleared. Then, again, with regard to the withdrawal of Sir Henry Elliot from Constantinople at the close of the Conference.…

…With regard to the third Resolution, for instance, he might admit that there was an ambiguity and indefiniteness about its language, inasmuch as it expressed a desire that— "The influence of the British Crown in the Councils of Europe should be employed with a view to the early and effectual development of local liberty and practical self-government in the disturbed Provinces of Turkey, by putting an end to the oppression which they now suffer, without the imposition upon them of any other Foreign Dominion." This might mean that under no circumstances should any of the oppressed Provinces be annexed to Austria, a position he was not prepared to adopt.…

…The right hon. Gentleman referred to a speech delivered by the Lord Warden of the Cinque Ports at some religious meeting as he termed it—which, however, I suppose was a meeting of the licensed victuallers—and he says that he spoke in favour of civil and religious liberty. But that is not the question before us. That question is whether or not Turkey has a claim on England for moral and material support. He said that there are three classes of opinion with regard to the Resolutions—that some think that they mean something—[An hon. MEMBER: "War!"]—others that they mean little, and others that they mean nothing at all. The right hon. Gentleman 689 must believe that they mean nothing at all, for he said nothing about them. The hon. Gentleman who moved the Amendment (Sir H.…

…The Resolutions now before the House are but a small portion of the great question which was raised by the proposals as originally drawn. As a wbele, they state a fact, and indicate a policy, the fact being that 759 certain atrocities have been committed and that they remain unpunished, while the policy indicated is a policy of guarantees. I will not attempt to palliate the conduct of the Turkish Government in allowing the persons who instigated or committed the atrocities to go free; but I would ask the House to place itself, when considering a question of the kind, in the position of the Government affected. In the first place, you know how these outrages were exaggerated — ["No, no!"] — not in quality, but in number they were exaggerated. At the outset, it was said that 60,000 persons had been killed. or deported; Mr.…

SIR TOLLEMACHE SINCLAIR : Sir,—Previous speakers on both sides have erroneously assumed that the defence of Turkey against Russia has been the traditional policy of England. Even if this was the case, it would not be a sufficient reason for adhering to that course if it is shown, as it has been, to have been useless and wrong, more especially under the totally different circumstances of the present crisis. I propose to prove that the very contrary is the fact. During nearly 200 years, from 1686 to 1877, there have been 10 wars between Russia and Turkey.…

…Here we have an Estimate—but I never read an Estimate like it before. It is this—The Estimate speaks of a "sum required beyond the ordinary Grants of Parliament, towards defraying the Expenses which may he incurred, during the year ending on the 31st day of March 1878, in increasing the efficiency of the Naval and Military Services at the present crisis of the War between Russia and Turkey." Now, I challenge the Chancellor of the Exchequer to produce another Estimate similar to this. Much has been said about the action of the late Government with regard to the Vote of Credit in 1870. I was a Member of that Cabinet, and was jointly responsible for that Vote, and I fully believe that we were right to ask for it.…

…My Lords, I think I may say that during the course of the debates which have recently been held in this House the tendency has been, on the one hand, to condemn the Government—or rather to upbraid the Government—on the ground that they have not fulfilled their obligations under the Treaty of 1856 of maintaining the integrity and independence of the Turkish Empire. There has been, on the other hand, as against those who sit on this bench, a tendency to upbraid us for not upholding Treaties in which we ourselves had our share—which, in fact, we ourselves had approved on behalf of this country, and which we contended were of the greatest value for the interests of the British Empire.…

…The noble Earl has done injustice to his country and to an ancient and good Ally, amongst the numerous classes who are 841 not well informed of the true state of affairs, and assisted Russian policy in essential respects—firstly, by his announcement that England has only one Ally, Austria, and that for the reasons he alleges she is a useless one; secondly, by his declaration that— "Those who profess admiration for Turkey, those who lament the fall of the Turkish Empire, are out of Court. You might have kept that Empire alive for a time, but you cannot now restore it." My noble Friend the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs would be the last person to wish to do so. "England would not allow it, and all Europe would be against it;" thirdly, that the present crisis of Eastern affairs does not justify the calling out of the Reserves.…

…Our present contention is that we can show that, by the changes and modifications which have been made in the Treaty of San Stefano by the Congress of Berlin and by the Convention of Constantinople, the menace to European independence has been removed, and the threatened injury to the British Empire has been averted. Your Lordships will recollect that by the Treaty of San Stefano about one-half of Turkey in Europe was formed into a State called Bulgaria—a State consisting of upwards of 50,000 geographical square miles, and containing a population of 4,000,000, with harbours on either sea—both on the shores of the Euxine and of the Archipelago.…

SIR CHARLES W. DILKE rose to call attention to the occupation of Cyprus. He said, that various reasons had been given for the occupation. One 1510 was that the Island had been occupied as "a strong place of arms, so that there present in our force we might support the Sultan." But the force had disappeared, melting away before our eyes. Another explanation declared that Cyprus had been occupied as a sort of model farm—as an example to the Turks of what might be done in Asia Minor. But we had bound ourselves by the terms of a wretched Convention, by which the Cypriotes continued to be Turkish subjects, and by which we were for ever to wring £115,000 a-year out of the unhappy people for the benefit of the Constantinople Pashas, in addition to what was needed for the government of the Island. We had become tax-gatherers for the Turk.…

THE DUKE OF ARGYLL : My Lords, the Notice I have given is a Notice of Motion, and the Motion which I now beg to make is for Copies of the latest Reports from Her Majesty's Consuls and from Her Majesty's Ambassador at the Porte upon the prospect of administrative reforms in the European and Asiatic Provinces of Turkey. My Lords, when I placed this Notice on the Table of the House, I did it in the confident expectation that I should be able to congratulate Her Majesty's Government and your Lordships, when I addressed you to-night, on the execution, or, at least, upon evident steps being taken for the execution, of the 22nd Article of the Treaty of Berlin. I rejoice to say that in that expectation I have not been disappointed.…

LORD EDMOND FITZMAURICE said, nobody in the House had a better right to bring this subject before the House than his hon. Friend; in the first 909 place, because of his great historical knowledge of those countries which formed part of the Turkish Empire, and not less because he was known as the author of one of the most interesting books of travel in those regions. It would be his (Lord Edmond Fitzmaurice's) duty to place before hon. Members a narrative of events, taking it up from the point where his hon. Friend left it, with regard to the negotiations at Constantinople.…

…signatory European Powers, by the 61st Article of the Berlin Treaty, in which the Porte undertook to carry out certain reforms in Armenia, and to protect the Christian people against the depredations of the Kurds and Circassians, and in the next place we are bound more expressly and more emphatically by the Cyprus Convention of 1878, under which a special obligation 1100 was imposed on this country, of seeing the reforms carried out in Armenia and in other parts of the Turkish Empire. We are under this double obligation, the one we share in common with other European nations, and in a special sense by the stipulations of the Cyprus Convention. That being so, what is the state of things revealed in this White Book, published a few weeks ago? The first observation that occurs to me is that many of the matters which have formed the subject of Question in this House find full corroboration in the statements made, in spite of the very imper…

…They ought to be put on the ground of national duty and national safety and humanity, and to avoid any recrimination it was possible to avoid. ["Hear, hear!"] He must say a few words on the speech of the First Lord of the Treasury, in which he endeavoured to deny that an obligation rested on this country to protect the Christians of Armenia. The right hon. Gentleman confined himself to the words of the Anglo-Turkish Convention and the Treaty of Berlin. It would be a great mistake to suppose that his right hon. Friend the Member for Monmouthshire had ever been an advocate or defender of either of those documents. He had not himself a seat in the House in 153 those days, hut, he remembered very well that his right hon.…

* SIR E. ASHMEAD-BARTLETT (Sheffield, Ecclesall) said, that he did not doubt the amiable intentions of the hon. Member for Flintshire and his philanthropic interest in all races and creeds—though that was not very evident in the hon. Member's references to the Turks—but he found in the hon. Member's speech all the vices, principally in language, but considerably in policy, which had led to recent disastrous events in Asiatic Turkey. He wished to protest against the language which had been used, to some extent in the House, and to a greater extent in the country, with regard to the Sultan and the Turkish Government.…

…First of all, I venture to affirm that the present situation—that is to say, the present insurrection in Crete; the intervention of Greece; the intervention of the Powers by force of arms in Crete—has been the direct result of the entire failure of the arrangements made by the Council of the Powers of last autumn. [ Cheers .] That arrangement was founded upon the worn-out idea that you can reform Turkey, leaving Turkey to be the engine and the instrument to carry out those reforms. [ Cheers .] That was the system upon which the reform of last August was founded, and it is because it was founded upon that false conception that it has failed. [ Cheers .] We are still, no doubt, without official information as to what happened since that arrangement, and the causes of its failure.…

*SIR ELLIS ASHMEAD-BARTLETT (Sheffield, Ecclesall) said although he could not in all respects endorse the details of the policy which Her Majesty's Government had pursued with regard to the Eastern Question, and with regard to Turkey and Greece, yet he must take the strongest exception to the views which had been put forward by the right hon. Baronet. The right hon. Gentleman was a great master of detail, that was to say, he was very particular that other should be accurate in their statements but as he had had occasion to point out before, the right hon. Baronet was not always so accurate with regard to his own details.…

…We cannot take up the case of a foreigner having a German passport, but if it was a British passport we should have to do it. As a matter of fact, I am informed that the German Consul was associated with the Russian Consul in the proceedings which took place in connection with the arrest. The hon. Member for Leicester asks how it comes about that when Turkish subjects are in Egypt, Turkey is not able to lay hands on them and extradite them. It is because Turkey has not the benefit of the Capitulations. The whole status of Egypt in regard to Turkey is not regulated by the Capitulations, but by firmans. The rights under the Capitulations in Egypt which capitulatory Powers have do not extend 391 to Turkey at all.…

…ix in all—necessarily a very cumbrous and slow-moving machine, and the meetings of Ambassadors in London were called into existence 2284 then as an emergency expedient by which through a simpler machinery than the ordinary diplomatic methods, the Great Powers might keep more constantly and more quickly in touch with regard to each difficulty as it arose. The object was to localise the war, and we found after surveying the ground that if Constantinople and Asiatic Turkey were not to be brought within the area of the war, and if these questions were not to be raised in the course of the war, then the Great Powers might find themselves in agreement, provided they came to an understanding with each other about Albania and the Ægean Islands.…

…I rise to ask the House to give a few minutes' attention to some parts of the world which are in an infinitely worse condition even than the greater part of the continent of Europe. I think it becomes us in our happy position to give a share of our thoughts to those unfortunate sufferers by the War. I desire to call attention to the condition of the races that hitherto have been subject to Turkish misrule, and in particular to the Armenian race, and to the country called Armenia. The Armenians are a people of very great qualities who have suffered, no doubt, by their Eastern surroundings, but of whom, by all the testimony I have been able to get, we may expect very great things from their abilities, industries, and their high qualities.…

…I am sorry that he is not in his place now, but I am sure he would feel offended if I retorted by saying that it would be just as reasonable to say that he was a friend of assassins, and that statement would be no more absurd than the phrase which he used at the end of his speech. Those who have been working for the protection of the subject races of Turkey for a great many years have been animated by a totally different spirit. I profess to know because I have been the Chairman of the British Armenia Committee ever since its formation, ten or twelve years ago, and, so far from being "animated by hate, intolerance, and blind revenge," we worked in such a way that practically the public did not know of our existence up to the time the War broke out.…

Turkey—Russian Trade Delegates Arrested in Constantinople [144], 644.

…Had the other part of the Opposition remained in its place in the House to-night, I think that the point I have in mind would probably have formed the main subject of their speeches. Far too much has been said about oil in connection with Mosul. As far as I can see, the action of the Government in regard to Mosul and the frontier is absolutely unconnected with oil. The Socialist party will not believe that, and a certain number of Turks will not believe it. It was very unfortunate that when the negotiations were carried on for working oil—if oil indeed exists, which no one knows for certain—a company called the Turkish Petroleum Company was formed in which America and others were interested.…

Mr. THURTLE : The hon. Member who has just sat down has lectured us on our duty towards the League of Nations. I submit that the League of Nations, like every other organisation created by human agency, has to stand or fall on its merits, and he would be a very poor friend indeed of the League who suggests that by this Treaty with Iraq and this settlement with Turkey we are doing any good to the League. It is arrangements such as these which tend to bring discredit on the League. They make it quite clear that; the League is being used, not for the purpose of administering justice, but for the purpose of fostering the interests of the strong as against the interests of the weak. [ Laughter. ] Hon.…

The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Sir John Simon) : I beg to move, "That the Bill be now read a Second time." The purpose of the Bill, as the House knows, is to confirm an agreement between His Majesty's Government and the Government of Turkey which is to be found in the Schedule to the Bill. The agreement is one of three agreements signed at the same time, on 27th May, 1938, and the three agreements are connected and have to be considered in relation to one another. They were all made the subject of Parliamentary publication and are to be found in three Command Papers with successive numbers—5754, 5755 and 5756.…

Mr. Noel-Baker : The right hon. Gentleman shakes his head, and I am glad to think that this was not the impression he 77 intended to give, though he gave it to me, because he went to such pains to explain to the House the point of view of the Turks and the various problems they were facing. On the question of the Turkish minority in Cyprus, it is worth recording that a large number of Turks have been living in Greece since the end of the First World War in Western Thrace in conditions of complete security, with their own religious institutions, which have been interfered with less than those in Turkey itself.…

Mrs. Jeger : I acknowledge the part which Turkey played in Korea as a member of the United Nations. Indeed, I am surprised that it should be seriously put to the House that Turkey, as a member of the United Nations, would be prepared to commit an act of aggression against another member of the United Nations.…

…", when this may mean life and death to many people about whom we are talking in such a leisurely way this afternoon? If 1500 he needed months for the task, Lord Radcliffe could have been in Cyprus months ago. He could have been there a year ago. There has certainly been nothing new in the situation which has made it easier for him to go at the present time; indeed, it is to the contrary. The hon. Member for Rutherglen (Mr. Brooman-White) contrasted the attitudes of the Turks and the Greeks in the present situation, and said that the Turks had behaved much better than the Greeks because they had not been agitating to get their way. The Turks do not need to agitate to get their way when the Foreign Secretary does exactly as they tell him. Indeed, even a gentleman who sometimes supports the Conservative Party wrote an article in the Spectator last week entitled "Our Turkish Foreign Secretary".…

…It is the basis of the Hungarian resistance to Russian control, and it is the basis of Greek Cypriot resistance to our rule. The Government should recognise the force of that nationalism and try to come to terms with it in any policy which they draw up. Partition seems to me to be one of the most important issues at present in Cyprus. It is widely believed, rightly or wrongly, that the antagonistic feeling between Greeks and Turks in Cyprus has been partially at any rate stirred up in the past by the British Government. The old idea of divide and rule is well known when there is an imperial and colonial Power trying to keep control of a territory. There was a very strong feeling in India that antagonistic feelings between Muslims and Hindus were stirred up by Britain. Ultimately India was divided to try to obtain a peaceful solution between Hindus and Muslims.…

…Already Greece is under pressure from certain Arab States in some aspects of her Middle East policy." It therefore follows from this document of only a year ago that we need sovereignty over Cyprus for our own interests and that we cannot rely merely on a base which is in some way subject to the by your leave of others, whether allies whose interests are in other directions, or the nearest neighbour, Greece or Turkey. If these conditions still hold good—and we have a right to be told before Parliament rises for the Summer Recess—our mere participation in a N.A.T.O. base could not be adequate to our interests. The debacle of Suez showed very clearly that whatever our alliance with the United States may be against Communism, when it is recognised as, as it were, directed from Russia, the alliance still apparently turns into obstruction and even hostility when we ar…

…I know that there has been a discussion whether the timing is right, but I think all your Lordships will agree from what we have heard this evening that the timing was right, and we shall go forward having in our minds 757 the speeches of the two noble Lords who put down the Motions, and the speech of the noble Lord, Lord Rea. While some noble Lords may have argued, so to speak, a bit on the Greek side or a bit on the Turkish side, broadly all have encouraged us to go on on the basis of the plan; and this we will do. Many have paid tribute to Sir Hugh Foot and to those who played such an important part in the past on the question of Cyprus: the noble and gallant Field Marshal Lord Harding of Petherton; the noble and learned Lord, Lord Radcliffe; the police, of course; and, above all, the British soldier. They have done, and are doing, a splendid and valuable job.…

The Secretary of State for the Colonies (Mr. Alan Lennox-Boyd) : I beg to move, That this House welcomes the Cyprus Agreement as serving the best interests of all the people of Cyprus, achieving a permanent settlement acceptable to the two Cypriot communities and to the Greek and Turkish Governments, safeguarding essential British defence requirements, strengthening co-operation between the United Kingdom and her Allies in a vital area thus satisfying Her Majesty's Government's aims of policy; records its tribute to the statesmanship shown at the Zurich and London Conferences without which the rapid completion of agreement would not have been possible; recognises the major role of the security forces and the public services in Cyprus during the l…

…We are all familiar with the tragic background of the situation which exists today—a situation which goes back more than a hundred years, a situation of rivalry and hatred between two nations, which still seems to exist in some measure even in 1976. As the noble Viscount, Lord Boyd of Merton, pointed out, after 1960 there was a situation in which the Turks could be forgiven for feeling that they were underdogs, and many of them have explained to us in the past two years, when they have been under criticism by some of us, how the Turks of Cyprus felt to be second-class citizens for more than a decade after the Treaty of Guarantee and Independence was given to Cyprus.…

…a stupid military régime in charge in Athens which was already tottering, staged a coup d'état and placed Nikos Sampson in power in Cyprus. This was not the work of Greek Cypriots; it was the work of kalamares, as they call Greeks from Greece 500 miles away. It was done in pursuit of the dishonoured dream of Enosis, which had already long since been abandoned by all sane people. The Greek colonels fell over their own feet immediately, but this did not stop Turkey from invading, and what a change there has been since then. Perhaps they had a right under the treaty to go in while Sampson was still there, but they certainly had no right to build up an invading army of 40,000 men; they had no right to take 39 per cent. of the land of the island given that they are only 18 per cent.…

Mr. Corbyn : I quote from information made available to organisations that are working to defend political prisoners in Europe. The information is freely available in Europe from sources within Turkey. The number is their estimation. If the Minister and Conservative Members choose to believe the Turkish Government, it is up to them. The figures they quote are far below the number of deaths, and far below the number of people threatened with execution and charged at present. The organisation Turkey News and Views, which reports events in Turkey, estimates that 200,000 people are in gaol at present, 45,000 of whom are said to be political prisoners.…

Lord Kennet : My Lords, we have heard the Turkish Cypriot case ably pressed in the first two speeches in this debate. My original intention was to be as evenhanded as possible in this sad affair. However, after listening to the last two speakers I admit to the temptation to take some time presenting the Greek Cypriot case; that is, the case of the legal government of the island of Cyprus. But I shall not do that. I shall continue to be as evenhanded as possible.…

…Gentleman has referred is certainly part of that approach. Having read the newspapers, talked to many politicians and visited the island, I have deep sympathy with it. As chairman of the Political Committee of the North Atlantic Assembly, I can speak with a degree of authority on the consequences of the domestic situation in Cyprus, which has widespread ramifications. for Greek-Turkish relations and for NATO. The hon. Member for Streatham suggested that NATO might somehow underwrite a Turkish troop withdrawal. I remind the hon. Gentleman that Cyprus is very much out-of-area to NATO, and I doubt whether there is the remotest possibility of NATO's seeking to intervene directly, or indeed indirectly, in Cyprus. We have all observed events in Turkey over the past week and the elections there, confirming Mr.…

…Perhaps we may consider for a moment what and where is Armenia. It is a very ancient kingdom which at one time stretched almost from the shores of the Mediterranean to the Caspian. Over the many centuries it has been reduced in size by its rapacious neighbours, by deportation and by the massacre of its inhabitants. It suffered from the callous misrule of the Persian, Roman and Ottoman empires, the last being quite the worst when in 1915 the Turks "ethnically cleansed" the eastern part of Armenia, which was known as Turkish Armenia, by slaughtering the inhabitants, leaving little or no trace beyond a few ruined churches and monasteries of what was once a thriving community. These churches are now officially declared "earthquake damaged" in a peculiar and somewhat selective manner because the walls always seem to fall outwards, similar to the use of explosives, and neighbouring mosques are totally undamaged.…

…I join with other noble Lords in congratulating the noble Lord, Lord Avebury, on raising this important issue, and doing so on the basis of first-hand experience, visiting some parts of the region and meeting with some of those who are suffering in this tragic situation. I speak with some diffidence, not having been able to see the situation for myself. However, I participate in this debate in your Lordships' House because the predicament of the Kurds in Turkey raises some fundamental issues on human rights. Moreover, sadly, it is possible to see many similarities between the suffering of the Kurds in Turkey and that of the Armenians, both historically and in the present day, with whose tragedy I have some familiarity. The noble Lord, Lord Avebury, has recounted today, and spelt out in great detail in his excellent report, some of the brutal policies inflicted by Turkey on the Kurds in recent times.…

Baroness Chalker of Wallasey : My Lords, I want to begin by thanking the noble Lord, Lord Avebury, the noble Baroness, Lady Gould, and the noble Lord, Lord Hylton, for sharing their experiences and their views as a result of their visit to south-east Turkey to monitor the recent municipal elections. While I would not agree with all they have said tonight, they have brought forward some very valuable points which have been picked up in the debate. This important topic is rightly being debated in your Lordships' House. I believe that there is true concern about the issue on a far wider basis than simply in your Lordships' House and another place. I receive letters and questions about the situation in Turkey.…

Baroness Cox : My Lords, I, too, congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Avebury, upon initiating this debate and for his characteristically comprehensive introduction. We owe him a debt of gratitude for bringing before your Lordships' House a subject which raises so many important issues of principle and of policy. Turkey's record in the field of violations of human rights is abysmal. Yet, despite this, many Western countries, including Britain, seem to be turning a blind eye to the suffering it is inflicting on many of its own people and on those of other nations such as Armenians and Greeks. Instead, we seem to be favouring Turkey with magnanimous concessions.…

…I do not want to hark back to the past, but, even in such a short debate, I find it difficult not to refer to the past a little. After the British withdrawal from Cyprus in 1960, the new constitution brought about a bicommunal republic of which the Greek Cypriots were the senior partners because of their greater numbers but which also guaranteed the rights of the minority, including a provision for a Turkish Vice President and, indeed, many other safeguards. That 1960 state of affairs was guaranteed by Britain, Turkey and Greece under a treaty of guarantee. I believe that it is the failure of that guarantee which makes the Turkish Cypriots so nervous: once bitten twice shy.…

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean) : My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Avebury, for raising this Question today. I am sure that all noble Lords are very much aware of his dedicated work in the field of human rights. I take this opportunity to pay tribute to his ceaseless efforts to raise the profile of debate in this vitally important area. For him, as for many others, Turkey has been a particular focus, and rightly so. In Turkey there are obvious problems and clear opportunities to put those problems right. As my noble friend Lord Rea remarked, only yesterday my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary made a speech on human rights issues. I shall not repeat today what he said, but I echo the spirit of his words. Human rights are fundamental to this Government's foreign policy objectives.…

Baroness Scotland of Asthal : My Lords, I, too, thank the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Rochester for raising this timely question and for his highly informative description of the problems faced by religious minorities in the Ottoman Empire and modern day Turkey. This debate has demonstrated that the promotion and development of human rights in Turkey is an important issue for the UK, the European Union, and above all Turkey itself. The right reverend Prelate began by asking what the Government and the European Union are doing to assist Turkey in its efforts to improve its internal human rights record. I shall move on to the role of the 365 Government shortly.…

…However, Greece has made real progress on security matters, especially with the break up of the November 17 terrorist group. I am also pleased to say that the bilateral aspects of Greece's concerns about European security and defence policy, a major source of disagreement between our countries earlier in the year, have now been resolved. Greece now regards the matter as being between the EU and Turkey, rather than between Great Britain and Greece. The Greek presidency will want a reaffirmation of the Lisbon process, and it is especially keen to look at matters related to social inclusion. Special attention will 327 be paid to the applicability of the Lisbon process to the new applicant states, assuming that enlargement goes ahead.…

…essions, especially on a personal level in relation to private property rights and some of the rights of settlers who had been there for some time. Myth No. 3 is that Greek Cypriots do not want a settlement because they are sitting pretty in relation to the EU accession. I remind hon. Members that the EU accession process was without preconditions. The decision of the accession negotiations was that the Greek Cypriots should not be punished twice: once for losing to the Turks in the occupation of 30 years ago and again by not being allowed to join the EU because their country is under occupation; 1 May became an artificial deadline—in fact, it became part of the problem, not part of the solution. It was seen by many as imposing a precondition by the back door. However, my experience and knowledge of the community, both here and in Cyprus, is that it definitely wants a settlement, but not at any price, as all the polls show.…

Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean : My Lords, I, too, thank the noble Lord, Lord Cobbold, for introducing the debate this afternoon. I very much welcome the opportunity to debate Turkey's progress towards accession to the European Union. On 17 December, the European Council will decide whether to open accession negotiations. The decision is one of enormous significance, not just for Turkey but for the United Kingdom, the EU and the whole region. As the noble Lord, Lord Dahrendorf, remarked, it is momentous. However, it is a decision for the Heads of Government on Thursday evening and Friday morning.…